#22 Erotic Intelligence, Curing Low Libido, and Somatic Movement with Jamie Elizabeth Thompson

On the show today we are joined by Jamie Elizabeth Thompson who is a sex coach and intimacy expert, helping couples achieve a more fulfilling and connected sexuality and increased libido through erotic intelligence and somatic movement.

Jamie has designed a number of online courses for her clients to access their desire more successfully, with an emphasis on communication and self-awareness.

In our conversation Jamie lays out the useful concepts of her work and how they fit together to support the purpose of owning our sexuality and relating this to someone else.

We also talk about simple starting techniques in battling low libido, embodiment, foreplay, a sexual calendar and Jamie’s own Erotic Menu™. 

We finish off with some thoughts on how to share your own desires with a partner and how much this can benefit all areas on one’s life.

Highlights

• Jamie’s background work in relationships and how she ended up working with couples.
• Somatic movement reprogramming and body awareness.
• Understanding the concept of erotic intelligence.
• The key to erotic intelligence and the first steps to take on a path to increasing yours.
• Jamie’s advice to those struggling with low libido.
• Turning the body on and using embodiment to get out of your head.
• The importance of foreplay and navigating different needs.
• Sexy scheduling and making time for intimacy in a busy life.
• Jamie’s Erotic Menu™ and how it outlines different ways we give and receive.
• Creating our own ‘training manual’ and sharing it with a partner.
• And much more!

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Transcript

Sean Jameson: Today I’m talking to Jamie Elizabeth Thompson. Jamie is a holistic sex coach who teaches people the tools they need to get their intimate needs met along with how to quickly navigate conflict with open, loving communication.

Jamie, thanks so much for coming on the show.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Yes, thank you for having me on.

Sean Jameson: I’d love to start out with finding out a little bit about you, about your background and how you came to helping people improve their relationship and love lives.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Yes, absolutely. I have been in this industry for over a decade and I started off working with people in dating and attraction and how to really create a spark and have a wonderful dating life. Then, I was transitioning and started working with people in relationships and how to navigate conflict and what I noticed that was the one thing that everyone had in common, it seemed to be a root issue that all of the people who were coming to me had was something around sexuality.

Something around intimacy, I found that the way that we approach our sex life ended up being a consistent thread throughout everyone that I had worked with has the place to begin working. I started focusing my practice on working with people in both dating and relationships but specifically, in the realm of sex and intimacy.

For eight years, I worked with a man named Dr. Karl Wolfe and we studied Jungian psychology, quantum mechanics, studied neuroscience and communication techniques in none dualism, also, somatic movement reprogramming. Many different modalities in a group format and working through the dynamics that come up when two or more people are present.

A lot of my work has been around being able to see into the root cause of what’s causing either a lack of attraction sexually or some kind of low libido or some difficulty in communicating about intimacy and sensitive topics.

That has been a lot of my training and I’m really happy in working with this and helping people harness something that I call their erotic intelligence and create thriving intimate relationships with deep intimacy as well as really hot sex. That’s been a lot of my journey and I’m excited to be here today to talk about that.

Sean Jameson: Awesome, you mentioned two things there that I would love to delve a little bit deeper, you mentioned somatic movement I think.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Yeah, one of the pieces that I have found that often, when people are having an issue in their sex life or in their ability to experience pleasure or receive what they want in the bedroom and have the kind of satisfaction that they’re looking for, they are in their head and not present in their physical body.

One of the ways that I help people overcome low libido or just really not being satisfied sexually is through helping them get more in their body. From an – because pleasure exists in the body if we are not present in our body and we’re living in our heads all day which is what happens to a lot of us, with devices and everything just being on the internet now.

People aren’t in their body as they’re not using their body, the same way they use to or they just aren’t aware of it.  What somatic movement reprogramming does is help people create more body awareness. When they’re able to have more body awareness then they’re able to experience more subtlety and therefore more pleasure and enjoyment in sexual experience.

Sean Jameson: You also mentioned erotic intelligence, what is that exactly?

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: It’s a word that Dr. Esther Thrill actually coined, I got it form her and so you know, we talk a lot about intelligence, right? We’re talking about intelligence of the mind and then – now, people are starting to recognize, there’s no such thing called emotional intelligence.

Sean Jameson: Absolutely.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: You know, it’s intelligence in the emotions. I say that there is also an intimate intelligence, there’s also an erotic intelligence where we can develop our capacity for dynamic sexual experience and being able to connect to many different parts of our own erotic energy and our own erotic self. I call this erotic intelligence.

Sean Jameson: Sure.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Basically, erotic intelligence would mean like, you’re a really great lover, you have high erotic intelligence, then you’re really good in bed. You know, it’s like developing that as another form of intelligence.

Sean Jameson: Awesome. Would you have any – I mean, everyone’s looking for the magic pill solution, the one simple technique they can use to fix everything. But are there any shortcuts or hacks that you recommend to people who want to improve their erotic intelligence to become better lovers?

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Well, I don’t know that there’s any shortcuts but I do think that there are some things that you can do as far as hacks go. If you start to pay – I think one of the things that is you know, hopefully we’ll talk here about today a little bit is communication. I think that communication is the key to erotic intelligence because if you learn how to listen to what it is that your partner is saying, both verbally and nonverbally, this is where sensing and being in your body is really important because your body will pick up on queues that your mind worked. I think the key to erotic intelligence is actually nonverbal communication and being able to give and receive nonverbal communication.

On the other end, being able to give nonverbal communication and subtle queues and if they’re not getting it, being able to actually say it out loud. This can really increase the ability of something I call sense making, it’s like a sexual sense making where we are in a state where we are able to define something that seems so hard to quantify and so if we’re in a place of sexual sense making, then we can make sense of what it is that we want, communicate it in a way that it can be heard and it occurs like an opportunity and our partner can receive it and give it to us.

Then we know how to let them know elegantly if it worked or not. This is a way of sense making in the bedroom together. Where we start to be able to flow into what it is that we are really wanting and what’s not working in a way that creates more connection instead of conflict.

When we’re really harnessing our erotic intelligence and we’re able to – it’s like the ability to be able to make sense of what our desires are and to be able to listen to what our partner’s desires are through subtle communication or actual verbal communication. That’s a big key I think to becoming, to heightening your erotic intelligence.

Sean Jameson: Awesome. Moving in a slightly different direction. I get a bunch of emails from my female readers that have trouble with low libido. Maybe they’re in a relationship for a while, maybe they’re in actually not in a relationship but they’re struggling with their libido and with a frustrated partner. I’m just wondering if you have any advice to someone who is listening perhaps, that’s also struggling with a low libido?

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Yes, absolutely. I had a client once, recently, who had a – she came to me after a failed marriage and she said, you know, “My relationship failed because I didn’t want to have sex with my partner and so – “

Sean Jameson: Was that her saying that or was that her partner saying that or was that a mutual agreement?

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: That’s what she told me.

Sean Jameson: Okay. She said, “My relationship failed because I didn’t want to have sex with my partner.” And she brought this out with me and you know, she was taking a responsibility for her low libido essentially and she was like, “I’m looking at getting on some medication, I’m looking at different options and I just wanted to see if you have any ideas about that.”

I said well, let’s try something out, let’s take an experiment for the next two months, before you start medication, let’s try some things and see if you can increase your libido. What ended up happening and I see this very often is that low libido was actually for her, about her not knowing what she really wanted and her feeling shame about what her real desires were.

Shame is a funny thing because it acts as a sort of veil in front of what we really want. If we somewhere along our life have created shame through puritanical programming, you know, Christianity or just the media in general that says that women are supposed to be ladylike. Whatever it is, you know, the programming that we receive, oftentimes we end up stuffing our desires and repressing them and then developing shame about what we actually want.

This is what happened with this client of mine and as we started to pull back that veil of shame and see what it was that she really desired underneath it. She started allowing herself to be turned on in her body by the things that she really desired because she wasn’t turned on by the things that she thought she should want, she was turned on by the things that she actually wanted. That’s kind of how this works.

In that process, she became more open and aware of what her real desires were. Now, she started bringing this – we worked on how to communicate about what you want in a way that someone else can receive it so she started bringing this to her current partner who she was already developing the same issue of having a low libido with and not wanting to have sex that much. She started bringing like, “Hey, you know what? I have recently discovered that I want to play in some other realms of desire, is that possible for us to explore some new territory together?”

He was absolutely over the moon like, “Yes, I’m so happy to hear that you actually want something.” She ended up, actually wanting to have sex, she ended up being able to have orgasms which were very elusive before. It was the first part of it that was the most important part for anyone out there who is dealing with low libido is to actually look at what is it that really turns you on? When she became in connection with that and allowed herself, every day, it was a practice, every day, with or without a partner, to allow herself to have space for what actually turned her on and to pay attention to it.

Now, the second thing that was in the way of her really experiencing her full turn on was not being in her body. Embodiment, this is another – I think shame and repression and then embodiment are two of the leading causes of low libido – or lack of embodiment. As she became more in her physical body and allowed herself to feel the sensations of pleasure, even if they were just small, even if she just put her hand on her arm and started touching her arm in a way that felt pleasurable in her body, this initially created a sort of a cringe and she was like annoyed by it and was like, why am I doing this?

It created a discomfort in her because her body was so used to not experiencing pleasure in any way. As she started to be able to handle and enjoy pleasure more through daily practices of increasing her ability to experience pleasure, not only sexual pleasure but everywhere in her body, we went through many different practices. She discovered that she had actually in some ways left her body and gone into her head, you know, from being a successful business woman, this is something that happens a lot.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: If this – that somatic movement perhaps again?

Sean Jameson: Yes, we did some of that, absolutely.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Okay.

Sean Jameson: We did some of that and then some of this is also just, you know, some other exercises that I’ve developed in just sensual – it’s like sensual embodiment training. You know? Where it’s like, as women, oftentimes, we are not in our sensual bodies anymore because of the way – what we have to do in our careers or just living in this world today, there isn’t a lot of space for women to just be sensually embodied all the time.

A lot of this was just her just getting more into her sensual experience and as she did that, she went more into her body and discovered that that’s where the pleasure was. That she had been living in her head and living in a story or a narrative that she had made up that she didn’t have a low libido or that she had a low libido.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Someone else probably gave her.

Sean Jameson: Yes, exactly. Because what she had heard for years in her last relationship was you know, this programming from her partner of like, “You never want to have sex with me, why don’t you want to have sex with me?” She just started really, you know, taking it personally and really throughout her life because this has been something that had followed her around throughout a lot of her life as well. Where it was like she always was the one that didn’t really want to have sex.

As she actually just let go of that mental idea and started experiencing pleasure in her body, she discovered that she actually did want to have sex. It just wasn’t the sex that she had ever been offered, you know? It wasn’t, it’s like she had never been able to know and really be in touch with what she wanted and then able to speak up about it.

As she learned to both discover what it was that really turned her on and then communicate about it effectively, her partner was super excited, I ended up actually working with both of them because he was like, “I want to learn more how to please her, how to give her what she wants,” you know, it was this beautiful unfolding and she jokes now, she’s like, “I don’t know how I ever thought that I didn’t want to have sex,” she’s like, “Now I want to have sex all the time.”

It’s funny because turn on is a funny thing, it’s like once we actually turn our body on, then we experience more sexual turn-ons. As she went through that process, she actually found different ways of turning her sexuality on.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: That’s fascinating. I have another question I get quite a lot. It’s often from guys as well and that’s about the important foreplay and often the lack of foreplay, especially in long term relationships. And especially perhaps there’s some guys listening and they don’t quite understand just how important foreplay can be for their partner, it’s not always totally, absolutely required. But often it is and I’m just wondering if you have any advice for people listening on how important foreplay can be and perhaps what they could do as foreplay.

Sean Jameson: Yeah, I have – that makes anything of this one. Couple that I worked with, she was, you know, had a lot of stress in her life and you know, she had a three year old child and a business and he had a business and they had projects, philanthropy projects they’re working on together, very full lives, very involved people with a lot going on as many of my clients are.

He wanted to have sex and would always initiate, she was never interested, he was very frustrated, she was frustrated because he was always initiating in a way that she didn’t want and this is thus one of the most common scenarios that I see in hetero-relationships.

What I did was give them the assignment of not having intercourse for a week and instead, only having foreplay with no destination. The peer point of their intimate experience was simply to enjoy each other and play with the more romantic energy of foreplay. Because that was what she wanted. I had her make a list of all the things that she would like and what she would enjoy and their assignment was just for him to, you know, practice learning and playing with these different things that she wanted on the list.

It was great because she had to actually claim what she wanted which is again, a really big key in this. Because it was hard for her to even make a list at first of the aspects of foreplay that she would want and what she would want more of in sex and intimacy.

This is a really great exercise for anyone out there who is not getting what they want in their relationship a really great exercise is to actually write down what would be your ideal sexual experience. What would be your ideal intimate bedroom time. And start to make a list and really create a vision of an experience that you would like to have and then share that with your partner.

Because oftentimes, they don’t actually get the details of what we want or we’re asking for it in a way that is critical or nit-picky and that’s what was happening in this relationship, she would just complain about what he was doing but not really give him the ways that he could show up differently.

They had their foreplay list and every night that week, they did it, for five nights, they practiced foreplay and they had lovely experiences of you know, I mean, he was massaging her, he was giving her – she had this specific type of pelvic massage that we had talked about that she wanted. So he was giving her this beautiful, just honoring of her and her femininity through pelvic massage and touching her in exactly the ways that she wanted and running a bath with rose petals. I mean, they did so many beautiful things and he really took it on, he really shifted and saw the opportunity to explore their intimacy in a completely different way.

On the sixth night, she initiated intercourse for the first time in three years in their relationship. What she said, the reason why I asked, well, what made that possible? She said, my body was relaxed enough to actually want it. I think this is such a valuable thing for men to understand and for women to understand about themselves. The female body, oftentimes is so in action during the day –

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Work mode.

Sean Jameson: In work. Work mode.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Or looking after the kid’s mode.

Sean Jameson: Exactly. Not in our feminine sensuality and what happens neurologically, our parasympathetic nervous system is in fight or flight mode and when that’s happening. When our autonomic nervous system is running really high, we are not able to access turn on. Our body can’t be sexually turned on because we are in survival, we are in fight or flight.

What started to happen is her body reached, through all the foreplay, deeper and deeper states of relaxation to where she realized, I actually do want to have sex, I just have to relax enough first. Now, they have this practice of really helping her relax. This has also been really valuable for her as just on her own as well because she’s now more aware of, “When I get home from work, I need to take a hot bath.”

She’s actually managing her own nervous system energy more effectively now as well and realizing, “Wow, I was stressed and I was bringing that home and I wasn’t giving myself the self-care to really allow my nervous system to relax. Not only to be turned on so we could have sex but also just for my own wellbeing.”

She stopped getting sick so much, she stopped being so irritable, started just having a more – a higher relaxation, safety and quality of life as well.

Sean Jameson: I think it’s funny because I often get contacted about this as well from people that say, “I have a stressful job so does my wife, we have three kids under six at home and we’re run off our feet and I can’t understand why neither of us were ever in the mood for sex and it is driving a wedge in our relationship.” And when you try and explain to people that turn offs aren’t just a certain type of cologne or how someone dresses.

It is actually much deeper things like are you stressed, are you anxious, are you actually comfortable, do you feel attracted? There’s all those things that really do play heavily in whether you’re turned on or turned off. So I think absolutely what you said there about maybe having a routine even to unwind, to relax, perhaps even getting a babysitter. Some nights so you have time and if you can afford it to unwind, relax and potentially get in the mood for sex. Life is all about sex if it’s possible. You know if you can help make it possible, why not try?

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Yeah, I have something that I give people as a practice that is outlining what you’re saying. I love what you’re saying and I call it sexy scheduling. So if you look at these people who are very busy, you know those of us who are very busy, oftentimes live out of our calendar. So our calendar dictates our life, everything that is important to us in in our calendar and you can see someone’s priorities based on what’s in their calendar.

So often times we schedule everything involving everyone else and all of the things we have to do for the kids and the work and the projects and the businesses but what you don’t find in your calendar is the time scheduled for self or the time scheduled to honor the couple or the time scheduled for intimacy. And people often have resistance and they say, “Well I want it to be spontaneous,” well that is really great and all but that is not the world we live in.

Oftentimes there is not just room for waiting for it to be spontaneous. Everything else that’s important to you is in your calendar. So if that is the case, my suggestion is to create something called sexy scheduling or sacred sexy scheduling. Where you actually create the container and the space in your calendar that says, “Okay for two hours, we’ve hired a babysitter, we’ve shut off the devices, we are just going to be together and see what happens.” And it can still be spontaneous within the space that you have created in your calendar for the intimacy.

But you actually have the space created and I think that is the really important thing is if you look at your life and you wonder why you are not having sex and that is a problem for you, then look at if you are actually making room for it because it is not just going to happen naturally if you have three kids under six and two full time jobs. It is going to take some intention. So if you can create the space for yourself to have spontaneous intimate connection with you and your partner.

Then you will find that that actually fuels the rest of your life, that that intimate connection, that deep connection with the person who you are around the most than anyone else in your life ends up being life giving, my clients end up finding out that they have more energy for the kids. They have more energy and a positive attitude. People who are having regular sex are far more productive, they are far more effective in life, they are more enjoyable to be around. They are more charismatic. I mean there’s all kinds of scientific studies to prove this.

So investing in your intimate life is actually investing in being more effective in the rest of your life and people end up finding more time. They end up finding more space because they become more effective.

Sean Jameson: Absolutely. So a thread I feel has been warming me through this whole conversation is the importance of communication and especially the importance of communication to getting what you want in bed.

Sometimes there’s someone who’ll happily say everything they want and like you said, perhaps you can make a list, write it down but if there’s someone listening and they are not quite sure how to go about asking their partner for what they want to in bed, do you have any advice? Is there anything they can do to get what they want in bed to communicate better?

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Yes, absolutely. I created something called the Erotic Menu and maybe a lot of people out there some maybe have not but it is something they can look up have heard of The Five Love Languages. So the five love languages essentially help us understand how each person uniquely gives and receives love and how sometimes, I might be giving you love in the way I like to receive it but you are not receiving it because you give and receive love in a different way. So it is really about getting on the same page with how we want to feel loved.

So I saw something that was missing in our culture and that is a way to understand what we all want to give and receive sexually. So I created something called the Erotic Menu and it is essentially outlining the four different erotic languages that there are that help us to understand what our partner wants, what we want and then how we can give each other exactly what we want.

So I have that and you can probably put a link to that in here because it is easier to actually look at the diagram.

Sean Jameson: Absolutely, I will add them to the show notes.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Yeah, great and you can create something that I call a shared reality with you and your partner where you both have an exact understanding of what it is that each of you want and then the ability to communicate it and the language to use. Oftentimes people will say, “Well I know what I want but I don’t know how to talk about it,” or, “I don’t know how to get on the same page with my partner.” So it is a way to get on the same erotic page together.

But inside of this with communication – I have a client who she was just constantly frustrated because she didn’t know how to ask for what she wanted because oftentimes as women in our culture, there is an old understanding or an old conditioning that we are just supposed to enjoy the sex that is being offered to us and so often women haven’t actually developed the skills of being able to speak up and share what it is they really want.

Now the fascinating thing is what men want most deeply is to feel like they can please us but often we don’t know how to tell them how to do that. So in looking or we don’t have the confidence or the courage –

Sean Jameson: I can confirm as a guy, what you are saying is very much true.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Yeah, oftentimes the men would come to me and would be like, “I just want to know how to give her what she wants.” You know? And women, it is so valuable when we can learn to find our own clarity about what we really want and so it is a practice that I gave this client. I was like, “You know when you have sex and when you enter intimacy, enter it from a different place. Enter it from instead of looking it like the frustration and the perfectionism and the criticism of everything that is wrong start to look at what are the parts that you enjoy.”

What do you really like? And tune into that and enter into the inquiry of, “How can I share with my partner what it is that I am enjoying about what he is doing, where can I find the yes in our sex life, such that we can expand the yes into being more a yes.” But oftentimes we just get focused on the things that aren’t right and then we lose our yes completely and we’re just not enjoying sex at all.

So I would say find the one thing and if there’s only one little thing, find the one thing that is really enjoyable and then start telling them about that. So she started revealing like oh and specifically for her it was like, “You know I’m noticing that while we’re having sex specifically in oral sex.” Which is something that she wanted more of, she was like, “When you are going down on me, when it’s slower and softer I enjoyed it a lot more and I find a lot more pleasure when it’s that way,” and then he was like, “Oh okay” and she was like, “I can show you.”

So she actually showed him and had what I called training sessions. So side note here, oftentimes there’s a common belief that everyone is just supposed to automatically know how to have great sex with every person they encounter. This is a complete myth, okay? Each person’s body is completely different especially women’s bodies. I mean the female sexual organs are so complicated and different. Each one is completely different.

So it is important to understand that we each have a training manual that we can learn how to share and so it is important to know your own manual, know how to actually communicate with someone about what it is that your female system likes. So she learned that and was able to communicate what her female anatomy manual was, more consistently. Now there’s general things that apply to most women but even those are nuanced.

You know as all the women out there we all know that we sometimes enter into a relationship with someone who seems to have no idea how our anatomy works even if they have been with a lot of other women in the past. How is this possible? It is possible because everybody is a little bit different and oftentimes, women don’t know how to teach men and share with men of how to really listen to the nuance of our body.

So this is a process that sometimes requires having sexual training sessions instead of just having the kind – not all sex is going to be sweat on the walls this is amazing I am screaming in pleasure.

Sean Jameson: Absolutely not.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Right?

Sean Jameson: Unfortunately I think you know media in general trains us to think that it is, that everything is deep crazy passion and the fact of the matter is after 20 years of marriage that is not the case. It can be from time to time but it is not going to be case every single day, every single night.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Right and even entering into a relationship, sometimes there’s a need for having training sessions. So what she did is she said, “I will show you,” and they had an oral sex training session. So he had never given her an orgasm through oral sex before this but through working with them I helped them have –

Sean Jameson: I just want to pick up a really important point you are making because guys have incredibly fragile egos and I think if you tell a guy, “Hey buddy you are doing this wrong.” Our egos are actually fragile that that can totally – that can throw spanner in the works, that can mess up a relationship but instead like exactly what you’re saying, if you suggest, “Hey maybe I can show you something that’s great that I am going to really like.”

That is such a great way to approach it and I just know as a guy, we do have fragile egos unfortunately and yeah, it is just a fantastic – it is something I hope people pick up on.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Yeah, I call it finding the yes. It is actually turning it into the positive instead of saying, “I don’t like the way you go down on me,” it’s like saying, “Oh I really like it when it’s softer and slower.” Like she said, “And I can show you if you want.” And so they had the session and in the training session he learned more about what she wanted and the next time they had sex, he was able to give her an orgasm for the first time in oral sex.

And it was simply because he actually know what to do now. So it is being I think a key here is being willing to actually do the training. Being willing to show someone what it is that you really love, being willing to explain it and learning more about what we actually want so that we can share it with someone in a way that is still is loving. You know there is a way that oftentimes we don’t start saying what we want until we are really frustrated and then it comes out like criticism.

And just like you said, men, I mean women and men but you know this happens oftentimes within the direction of women being unsatisfied and then being critical of their partners because – of being critical of male partners because they don’t understand what they really want. Well I feel and have seen over and over again that when a man really gets what he actually understands what it is that you want, that’s what he wants to do.

So if he’s not doing that and he loves you and he is a decent human being and is not only in it for himself and then there’s a way that he actually doesn’t know what to do. So giving them that it ends up not only educating them on what they need to do but also ends up really supporting your pleasure because you find what it is that you get what you want finally.

Sean Jameson: I think that is so true. Jamie this has been fantastic. I think people can take a lot of great information away from this but I am just wondering if people want to find out more about sexy scheduling, the erotic menu, creating a shared reality together, what is the best way for them to get in touch?

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: The best way to get in touch is actually my personal Facebook page. I end up doing a lot, I share a lot of information on there. Also my website is an excellent place to find. That is where you’ll find information on getting on the same page, what to do when you are not in the mood, the erotic menu and how to handle low libido.

Sean Jameson: Awesome, I will include all of that in the shownotes and Jamie, thanks so much for coming on the show.

Jamie Elizabeth Thompson: Great, thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.