#60 Domination Tips from A Real-Life Dominatrix, Mistress Eva Oh

Domination, bondage, discipline, and other sexual kinks are merely tools to aid in a story being told between sexual partners. In this episode of The Bad Girls Bible, real-life dominatrix of 13 years,  Mistress Eva Oh joins us to discuss all things domination and share her tips for women and couples interested in these pleasures.

Tuning in, you’ll hear all about how our guest became a dominatrix, how her career has helped her embrace her personality, what work is like for her on the day-to-day, and so much more! She shares (some unexpected) advice for women wanting to be more dominant sexually before telling us how couples can get into BDSM and discipline. We even discuss the personal exploration involved in sadistic sexual practices. From boundaries, to aftercare, to the traffic light and safe word system, this episode explores all things sexual domination from a realistic perspective so be sure to press play now!

Key Points From This Episode

• Introducing today’s guest, real-life dominatrix, Mistress Eva Oh. 
• Eva tells us about her background and how she became a dominatrix. 
• What it’s like to be a dominatrix day-to-day when she started versus now. 
• How being a dominatrix has helped her assert herself authentically. 
• Why she doesn’t try to understand why her clients want to be dominated. 
• Women wanting to be more dominant and how she suggests they achieve that. 
• Eva’s advice for couples wanting to try bondage and discipline for the first time. 
• How sadism is not only a sexual interaction but also a personal exploration. 
• The importance of having a conversation about boundaries before trying BDSM. 
• Eva explains the traffic light and safe word system for a kinky sexual experience. 
• The aftercare involved when a BDSM scene ends between sexual partners. 

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Transcript

“EO: For some people, but again, I live in the psychological and sometimes the threat is better. So, people understanding, like once they are locked, as long as there’s like a trusting thing happening, like making suggestions. You understand that I can do whatever I want with you now, right? You know that you can’t use your hand to touch this or grab that or whatever. It’s just like moving with the psychology. I think, yeah, sure, make somebody immobile, but I think making them really understand how immobile they are is probably the more fun part.” 

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:39] SJ: This is The Bad Girls Bible Podcast. I’m your host, Sean Jameson, and this is the place where I interview experts and professionals and everyone in between to teach you how to dramatically improve your relationships and have more enjoyable sex more often. If you’re not already subscribed to The Bad Girls Bible Podcast, you just need to open your podcast app, search for Bad Girls Bible, and hit that subscribe button, so you get the latest episodes delivered straight to you the moment they are released.  

[INTERVIEW]

[0:01:11] SJ: Today, I’m talking to Eva Oh. She’s a professional dominatrix who has been honored with a sexual freedom award and is also served as the face of the German-Fattish ball. Among her pioneering contributions is the creation of the world’s first submissive training platform, and the Teakink Series, and the award-winning Safe Work podcast. She’s also been featured in the Washington Post, Wired, Rolling Stone and many other major media outlets. Mistress Eva, thanks so much for coming on the show. 

[0:01:47] EO: Thank you for having me. Always amazing to hear about myself. 

[0:01:52] SJ: Oh, good. I’d love to start off with you, maybe a little bit about your background and how you came to become a dominatrix. 

[0:02:03] EO: I celebrated my 13th dominatrix birthday last week. 

[0:02:09] SJ: Awesome. Teenager.

[0:02:11] EO: Yeah. Look at that. Just about. I had no idea what it was when I started. It was just a term that was thrown at me because of my assertive communication style, but it’s something that I decided to Google after a career in strategic consulting didn’t quite bring out the joy in me. 

[0:02:38] SJ: I can understand. That is insane but exciting. 

[0:02:42] EO: I mean, we could go to that, but the Google led me to a dungeon. I ended up training. 13 years later, here we are. 

[0:02:52] SJ: Awesome. Did you always feel like there was a part of you that was maybe more assertive, more dominant than your peers? 

[0:03:02] EO: I only realized much later in life that that was the case. I never really compared myself to other people. I’m not very good at that skill. 

[0:03:15] SJ: Awesome. It’s a good non-skill to have then, I guess. 

[0:03:20] EO: I mean, it meant that I was pretty ignorant to many things about myself for a long time, but in some ways, it does leave you out of society’s expectations. But upon reflection, I realized that I haven’t had much of an issue asking for what I wanted earlier in life. Then in kind of like mid, like in my 20s, as you start to socialize more and more outside of immediate groups, I remember intimidating people with my directness. At the time, I had no clue. It was just me trying to figure out myself in the world. Now, in retrospect, I probably managed to achieve many things that other people are too scared to ask for. 

[0:04:12] SJ: What is it like being a dominatrix? What would your average day look like? Is it tax forms and expensive ports, or is it a little different? 

[0:04:25] EO: Nowadays, it’s answering a lot of emails, mostly. When I first started off in the dungeon, I would see up to eight people a day, three times a week, at least. But now, I only see two people for a session a week, more or less. The rest of my time, it’s dealing with other things. The world of the dominatrix, especially my particular profile, whatever you want to call it, is entering the mainstream more and more. So, I have a lot of random emails and contracts to talk about lawyers with, like – 

[0:05:03] SJ: Okay.

[0:05:03] EO: Owners. Yeah. It’s not as latex-filled as some people might imagine. 

[0:05:10] SJ: I guess there’s aspects of your job then that are like maybe just other regular jobs. But also, I guess there’s this latex-filled kind of – 

[0:05:21] EO: Moment. The basis that everyone seems to be interested in. I shoot more than I session these days, which I don’t love, but the content monster really likes it, so we’ve got to keep doing that in order to stay in the mainstream eye and therefore keep the income, etc. coming. I think also, there’s probably been a part of me that subconsciously scaled down the sessioning. I mean, the price has gone up significantly, but I think I enjoy every session now. I think if it was maybe even four times a week these days, it might be a little bit routine. I don’t love routine. 

[0:06:04] SJ: Is it draining though? You said you had this big three-days-a-week schedule at the start. Is that tiring for you? 

[0:06:11] EO: Absolutely not. 

[0:06:13] SJ: Okay. It gives you energy. 

[0:06:15] EO: Back then, it was all new and interesting, and there was a lot to learn. There are still things to learn and especially technicalities that you can always improve on, but the psychology is what really gives me the kicks. On average, I have the average client figured out. 

[0:06:37] SJ: Awesome. That’s just a bit easier. 

[0:06:40] EO: The kicks are not as intense as they used to be. Yeah.

[0:06:44] SJ: Do you find that there’s any stigmas, preconceived notions, misconceptions when you meet people friends or friends, you’re at a dinner party or something? 

[0:06:54] EO: About what I do? 

[0:06:55] SJ: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 

[0:06:57] EO: I don’t think I socialize with stunted people so much anymore. Those days are quite far from me and or maybe I don’t even notice anymore. Very early on, I’d go to dinner parties, friends of friends and tables would shut down when I mentioned what I did for work, like people would side-eye each other and close down, or they’d be extremely interested, kind of veered between the two. Now, I think maybe the circles that I move in, they’re like, “Oh, yeah. my friend does that,” or “Oh, yeah,” or they already understand of my career or however, and it’s just a non-topic. But aside from that, I don’t know. Maybe times have shifted a little bit in the English-speaking world. Maybe things have improved. 

[0:07:51] SJ: I think so. It’s like a slow, constant, 50, 100-year thing. I mean, even if – I’m Irish, if you look at Ireland where I guess my parents grew up to where we are now, things have definitely, I guess, loosened up a bit. Have you found then that exploring this job, being a prodomme, has that affected maybe your assertiveness in general? Has it made for like better relationships, being able to set boundaries better with people, just being more assertive in general? 

[0:08:26] EO: Thankfully, I had the gearing towards my satisfaction before the job, which I guess, brought me to the job, but the framework that I’ve been able to explore on such a repetitive basis has definitely helped me understand how to use my personality in more pointed ways, I guess, in order to achieve what I want faster. Yeah.

[0:08:57] SJ: That’s fair enough.

[0:08:57] EO: Just practice of a skill, but also, prior to the job, I’ve always understood what I wanted and had a bit of a way of getting my way, but I would do it in a clandestine approach like I would make people think that it was their idea or not get in the way as a woman. I had to coerce people without them knowing in order to fit into societal frameworks of operation. Now, I realize that I don’t have to do that, and I have language and I have skills in order to make those things happen without excusing my existence anymore. 

[0:09:42] SJ: That’s better. You can be more direct, I guess. 

[0:09:45] EO: It’s better for the community groups also to understand that I can have an opinion and it can be valid and we can do what I want directly without me having to not put the pressure. People need to learn that women have an opinion and it’s totally fine to follow it, yeah, without them being perceived as words like bossy when it’s simply just understanding what one wants and communicating it. 

[0:10:18] SJ: Absolutely. In your 13 years, do you have any insight or have you developed or like any theory on why a client or maybe anyone would want to either be dominated or to dominate their partner? Like where does that come from? 

[0:10:38] EO: I don’t know. I spent a lot of time at the beginning of engagements talking to people about their motivations, but over time, I’ve realized that sometimes pathologizing it can take away from the magic of the experience that I want to achieve. I think I create an experience and I’m not a therapist and if they want to pathologize that, they can go somewhere else. I’m there to get my kicks. If I feel like I can do that by you explaining yourself, then maybe I’ll use it, but otherwise, I’m indifferent to why you are the way you are. 

[0:11:22] SJ: Fair enough. 

[0:11:23] EO: Yeah.

[0:11:24] SJ: It takes a lot of mental overhead, maybe out of it, as well. 

[0:11:27] EO: Yeah. 

[0:11:27] SJ: Just be in the moment – 

[0:11:28] EO: Yeah. I’m there for having a good time. If we’re there in a relationship context, then maybe we can go into things more because we might need to understand our parameters better, but I just need to know just about enough. Sometimes your body and the way that you are is going to tell me more than you think that you know. Yeah. Do I have any theories as to why we are the way that we are? I mean, I can only take myself maybe as the best example because I spent the most time with myself and my own play. 

I mean, there are things such as I feel that my family are probably more matriarchal. Women in the family seemingly make most of the decisions that I needed to follow. So, maybe that’s an example. They’re all pretty clear communicators and we don’t shy away from pleasure in our experience of life. That probably helps. But where does my sadism come from? I wouldn’t say that I recognize that. I think I’m just very comfortable in exploring the far reaches of myself. Maybe all of us could get the enjoyment that I get, but maybe a lot of people don’t let themselves go there. I don’t know what gave me that ability though. 

[0:12:48] SJ: I get a lot of emails, comments on the website from female readers. They want to be more assertive or even dominant in their sex lives. They don’t know where to start. 

[0:13:02] EO: Do they tell you why? 

[0:13:04] SJ: Sometimes it’s their partner wants them to be more dominant. Sometimes they, I don’t know how to phrase this. It’s not necessarily in a BDSM context. It’s maybe just being taken control and feeling like they can push the partner and switch up the position in bed. Do you have any insight into why that may be? Then also maybe some tips for getting into a more not necessarily dominant, but maybe more assertive about wants and needs in not necessarily the relationship in the bedroom. 

[0:13:41] EO: Yeah. I think if you’re going to be really practical about it, probably there are trained therapists that can give you more concrete exercises in order to make that a part of your toolbox and your psyche that I guess I can speak from what I understand about my own interactions with my sexuality and my own satisfaction. Maybe things from a dominatrix perspective, right? Why do I think that people might be gravitating towards, oh, I would to be more assertive and dominant? 

I guess because they’re just not getting their pleasure needs met. There’s just a lack of satisfaction. That doesn’t necessarily mean that somebody needs to be dominant, maybe assertive with yourself, but it doesn’t mean that you have to be even assertive in a space. Maybe you want to be led. I think questioning how motivated you are if a partner is asking you to do something is probably the first most important step. Then if it sits right, or if you’re mildly curious, I think I always suggest trying to, if you don’t know how to ask for things, trying to do it outside of a sexual context first, or trying to do it with somebody that you actually trust and it could be very small exercises. 

I worked with this like relationship coach to coaster workshop once and she was doing this thing where I guess it’s a pretty common exercise. I had never seen it before, like sitting with somebody and one person was going to be doing the action and the other person was going to be asking for it. It was very simple, just like hand on hand, like I want you to touch me with the second finger with your nail down the middle of my palm, like just understanding that you can be specific in that.

I think it’s like a totally out of my scope because I ask for stuff all the time, but I think that even that tiny little thing can be very difficult for people. I guess removing the sexuality from it sometimes can help you understand the framework of what asking feels like. If it’s so difficult for you, I think it’s also about figuring out why for a more long-lasting approach. I mean, there’s lots of little exercises, like the asking. I tell people to like be very specific to say, in the next 15 minutes, I’m going to ask you to do stuff in the house. 

There’s a safe word, but I need you to follow my instructions. This is a practice of what dominance is actually like because sometimes fantasy versus reality is another thing for all parties. So, it’s like be specific about how you want the coffee, be specific about where you want them to sit in a room, see if that’s even enjoyable for all of you. I guess maybe an open mindedness and a self-reflection is a more important thing. I know that that’s not like, here are the three tips. Now, you’re dominant. 

[0:16:46] SJ: Oh, I was honestly, I was hoping for the three tips, but you’re being more realistic. I think this is – it’s actually a better answer. 

[0:16:55] EO: Yeah. I personally don’t see the merit in that. I can see if you do the three tips repeatedly until it becomes habit that I can see how that would work, but my mind isn’t formatted so simply, I guess. I kind of need to see why things work and therefore, they change me on a deeper level that’s sustainable. You’re asking the wrong dominatrix if you want it, I guess the three – sorry. 

[0:17:21] SJ: I really appreciate your answer. It’s much more honest than I guess someone who has a three-point process and a program to sell and all this kind of stuff.

[0:17:30] EO: I think there might be. If so, then great. I’d love to see that in action for people, but not thinking very deeply about life, I think can leave a lot of problems for everyone. 

[0:17:40] SJ: Let’s say a couple has discussed it. They want to try out some type of BDSM. Let’s just say specifically, let’s say bondage. Do you have maybe from working in a dungeon, your prodomme date, like when you’re working in a dungeon, like some kind of introductory types of bondage that a couple could try together, that’s not 15 different ties and crazy Shabari?

[0:18:08] EO: Are they at home? 

[0:18:10] SJ: They’re at home. Hopefully, they can use stuff they have already around the house, but maybe they can also go out and buy stuff. 

[0:18:19] EO: That they already have. I mean, there are some tips and tricks around shoelaces as like cock ties that people do, but if think in general, and you, of course, you can use belts, maybe like a belt to a solid surface or something like that, maybe two belts, the cuffs are still the first thing that I pack. You can just do one and you can you do it to like a harder surface so that one hand is free. You can do it to each other. You can do two people together and you are the third. I think that that’s generally a good space to start. 

In terms of bondage, I mean, the physicality of it is probably enough of a thrill for some people. Again, I live in the psychological and sometimes the threat is better for me. People understanding like once they are locked, as long as there’s like a trusting thing happening, like making suggestions as to you understand that I can do whatever I want with you now, right? You know that you can’t use your hand to touch this or grab that or whatever. It’s just like moving with the psychology, make somebody immobile, play with tease, but I think making them really understand how immobile they are is probably the more fun part. 

[0:19:47] SJ: That’s awesome. Yeah, it didn’t occur to me. Creating this whole scene, maybe almost a storyline. 

[0:19:54] EO: I mean, that’s the reality. They can’t move now. I could do whatever I want. Maybe they could scream, but I could also put something in their mouth and they couldn’t remove it. I like to play with emotion. I think that that’s something more fun to get off on. 

[0:20:15] SJ: So, then for say moving on then from bondage, if you wanted to try discipline, but you don’t want to, again, go ahead and buy a bullwhip. 

[0:20:24] EO: That one’s easier. Yeah. That one, I mean, many of us have operating hands. I would even still look up like a spanking tutorial. There’s probably many tutorials probably with some YouTube, sort of thing of whether they’re doing it right or not in the comments because you can do any of it wrong very easily and it can become very tiring. I mean, even just a twist of a nipple can be something. 

Taking a moment to understand that sensation can be felt in so many ways and to just like understand that creativity is the biggest component. I think it’s great, but I mean, when I’m at a hotel, they have a shoehorn. It’s like there’s so many opportunities that you don’t need to even use your hand with, or even just a flick of a nail. 

[0:21:21] SJ: Again, are you using discipline maybe as a trash, building up to it, telling them what you’re going to do? 

[0:21:28] EO: I’m talking a lot, but that’s my thing. You don’t have to, but it depends, like sometimes in scenarios where discipline needs to be disciplined, like punishment-wise, like if there’s something that maybe I’m angry about and I feel like it will be rectified my anger, will released in a productive form if we do a scene around it. I need you to take however many of this in this particular position, and you’re going to do it, I’m sure you have a safe word, but I’m going to need this. Then yeah, there’s very specific punishment discipline scenarios, but then there’s also just sensation play, kind of impact play scenario. Maybe they’re in bondage of some sort, maybe just the cuffs to the bedhead or however, and then just like playing with an implement, like it can be a paddle, it can be the shoehorn. 

Also understanding anatomy, like where major arteries are and avoiding where those things are, look up those charts online, avoiding things like the kidneys at the back. Very important. Yeah, and then just like you can use the edge of a tool, you don’t have to use the full implement the whole time. You can tease it into them, and then you can like build it up and you can stop. You can pull back. You can, you don’t have to say anything, but for five minutes you can torment someone and tease someone just with the use of one small thing. It’s about the creativity. 

It’s about having – you’re having a conversation with this tool. It’s your tool. It’s your paintbrush. So, don’t just think, oh, this does this one thing. It doesn’t. The edge of it does another thing. The speed of it does another. It depends on how creative you are and how closely you’re watching people and how you weave that emotional journey with them. I think is where value can be. Of course, there are people who fetishize the feeling, they just want that hard beating. There’s that. I think you can always add in the storyline. 

[0:23:31] SJ: Awesome. I like what you said about this idea of you’re creating a story. You’re not just using a cane or a whip or your hand, just to actually do the action. It can be drawn out much more. Is it the same then for exploring sadistic or masochistic tendencies? 

[0:23:53] Yeah. I think for me, it’s such a personal process and learning about how my mind, where it can go and how I can gather pleasure from all of these different aspects is very intriguing for me, like how sadistic I can be. Seeing where my mind goes. It’s not only like a sexual interaction or an interaction between people, but it’s also like a personal practice, so to speak. 

I think it’s just dependent on how watchful the person you are and how much time you’re spending thinking about those processes. But it’s about your approach to life. I guess I’m sure there’s many people who indulge in kink, in BDSM, in a very shallow way, and that’s where they want to keep it. But I think that is potentially a shame if they don’t engage with the corners of where their minds are and the creativity that is possible using these tools in this framework. 

[0:24:59] SJ: Exploring those, I guess, edges, maybe for you with a client, but maybe there’s a listener and they want to explore with their partner. How important is the conversation around boundaries? Maybe beforehand, should you just jump in, see how it goes? I’m asking as if you’re maybe advising a close friend who decides, “Hey, I want to try this out.” 

[0:25:25] EO: Yeah. I want to try out which part?

[0:25:27] SJ: Maybe any aspect of BDSM, but maybe just dominating their partner, putting them in bondage. 

[0:25:35] EO: I love making sure that people have information. I would probably get them to look up a resource where they can see a bunch of kinks and see what might speak to them first, and then to use that to create maybe a small scene in their mind before they even approach their partner, or they could do it as an activity together. Then I think once people have that awareness of what is potentially possible, we can talk about what parts of those things looked interesting or too terrifying. 

Then when we have that awareness, we can talk about things that are personally also maybe too triggering, whether it’s certain words, certain physicians, certain scenarios. There is a lot of negotiation and a lot of talking in getting a scene right, I think. If you only want to do like one activity and we’re very sure we want to do just this one activity, then maybe it’s a simpler negotiation and very important to have a safe word, sometimes the traffic light system where you’re slowing down as supposed to just stopping. 

[0:26:41] SJ: Could you explain the traffic light system for people? 

[0:26:45] EO: The traffic light system is a good, yes, like green, or like we’re in the middle of something and they’re like amber or yellow. That just means like slow down, like I’m happy to keep going, but I need that maybe in a slightly lesser capacity. Red is to just like I just need that this to end, like right now. Yeah. For that, people do need to know themselves a little bit more. I personally just use the one safe word system with new people to me, which mine is mercy. I think the safe word system is quite a useful tool. 

People also need to understand that they’re doing everyone a favor by saying a safe word, because sometimes pride can stop people, but then people get hurt and ramifications are bad for everyone. Yeah. I think that there’s quite a lot of components to how people generally practice BDSM when we’re within a community context and understanding these days. That takes an awareness of self, an awareness of what’s potentially possible, a negotiation about where we want to meet in those things, safe word around those things, maybe how long we might engage in a certain play, like to be honest, once I know somebody for a really long time and it’s not a specially crafted scene that we’re doing three days at a dungeon whatever. 

There’s some things we need to talk about, including health factors that maybe your knees are bad, maybe you have a pacemaker or whatever, but I just roll with it. They know my safe word. Maybe I’ve checked in with how they are over lunch, so now I know they’re in a fairly good hit space today. All right, that’s it. You’re in. On the ground. I guess these things are flexible when you feel safe, and you know they feel safe, but in order for that to happen, probably is a lot of communication and understanding each other. 

[0:28:45] SJ: What about at the end, maybe seen draws to a close? Is there some level of aftercare there? 

[0:28:53] EO: Yeah. Especially like when it’s a lifestyle context because I tend to have lifestyle exchanges. It permeates my entire dynamic with someone. There is not as much of a start and a stop, but when there’s a scene that we want to have, when there’s like a specific impact. I kind of work my pacing on personally, like I will like build somebody in and build somebody out in the time that I know that we have. I do that by changing voice, like music, like intensity of interaction, intensity of play. That’s how I handle trying to bring people in and out. Sometimes when it is time first and change my voice entirely, change lights entirely, like bring them water, get them to change, like shift things, so that they know now we’re out of that headspace. 

Some people need physical touch. Some people need quiet. Some people, it’s going to be different, but to understand that there is an intensity that is possible within play and that we need to manage how everybody comes in and out of it, including the top is something to factor in as well. 

[0:30:10] SJ: Fantastic. 

[0:30:11] EO: Yeah. 

[0:30:12] SJ: Eva, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. 

[0:30:15] EO: I know I don’t give super straight answers. Life is too complex for me. Sorry. 

[0:30:20] SJ: Yeah. But that’s the reality of life. I prefer accurate information for people listening than like we talked about three simple steps. 

[0:30:29] EO: Yeah, yeah. I mean, sure, if you’re going to do like a five-minute. Let’s practice run, it could probably be much more brief, but if you want to start to have deeper experiences of things, I think, of course, it’s good to have more information. 

[0:30:44] SJ: If people want to find out more about you, get in touch, what’s the best way for them to do that? 

[0:30:50] EO: Well, I’m kind of, I guess because I’ve been recording a lot for it. I’m in my podcast brain at the moment. I have a podcast called Teakink, T-E-A-K-I-N-K. I’m quite enjoying that. That would be a good way to get inside my brain, I think. But in general, you can just Google me and find me everywhere. Eva Oh. Yeah. 

[0:31:11] SJ: Awesome. 

[0:31:12] EO: Yeah. Thank you so much. 

[0:31:15] SJ: Thank you for coming on the show. 

[0:31:16] EO: Thank you. 

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[0:31:18] SJ: One last thing before you go, if you want to hear more podcasts, just like this one, open your podcast app, search for Bad Girls Bible, and hit that subscribe button.

[END]